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The Indians

[May06] Advanced Indian Roads between Cities by Jorge Pérez

I've new ideas about Colonization, first, there should be exist roads between each City of the advanced Indians, I mean, the Aztecs, and the Incas had roads, so European powers should be able to use them (and conquer their Cities too, but this is already said).

[ The roads idea is good. I'm pretty sure the Incas in particular had a very good road network. I believe the Inca Empire only lasted about 150 years before the Spanish arrived. Roads would make trading with the Wagon Train a lot easier too. And there were of course the pre-Aztec Maya civilizations of the Yucatan peninsula, Mexico. And some Pablo settlements in New Mexico. The only thing is the game makes the Indians get upset when roads are built near their Cities.]

About the roads, it's true, not only Incas, but Mayas and Aztecs too, they had roads to communicate all Cities. In the game, maybe Indians can become upset if they are connected to an European colony, not by the road itself.

[Mar05] Remembering Camps visited and trained at by Jorge Pérez

What about signaling the Indian camps that have been visited and the ones that have educated an european? Because if not it's impossible to remember which have educated a colonist, or which have been visited, and then a scout keeps on visiting already visited camps, besides it would be nice signaling the trade goods they want. It could be done with small icons that could be represented always on or just when you put the mouse on the camp.

[ This is a key idea. Easy to implement and would make the game a lot easier to play. Computers are ideal for remembering things. ]

[Mar05] Trade contracts with Indians by Jorge Pérez

It would be nice too, to make trade contracts "I'm gonna supply you ____ tons of coats each year, if not I must pay you ___" It's an example but I would like to make trade contracts.

[ What if they run out of goods? They don't tend to produce much. ]

[Mar05] Annual Tribute for Tribes and Powers by Jorge Pérez

Another idea is that tributes from Indians should be forever until they refuse to pay them. "The tribe of Apaches agree to pay ____ tons of ____ each year for being kept out of your armies rage". Then they can refuse to pay them and then declare a war upon u or just refuse paying them. Of course if you're in war with them they don't pay it. Now you can ask for tribute but you must keep on asking for tribute each turn. This way one could negotiate a tribute in exchange of leaving them in peace or helping them against an European power or even they could make you pay a tribute in exchange of the same things, for example they could make u pay for not declaring u a war. This could be done with other European powers, Spanish could make English pay tribute each year for leaving them in peace or forcing them to join a war with another European power. This means that relations between an European power with Indians and another european powers should be developed.

[Feb05] Indian Allies

Have Indians ally with different European Powers than fight each other and the other European Power. If the European Powers are at war. Most Indians either allies with the British or French and fought each other, or helped Cortes beat the Aztecs.

[Feb05] Click on Village for intelligence

After a Scout has visited a village, you should be able to click on it and get a report of what they teach, whether you have learned that skill already and what trade items they require. It is impossible to remember all the skills any other way. The report will be from the last time the scout visited and may not be accurate, but at least it would be a good guide. This report would also make trading with the Indians more practical. This seems a task made for a computer and would save a lot of people getting wound up and wasting a lot of time. Perhaps this facility would only become active after you build your first printing press and hire your first expert statesman. It would work by simply clicking on the village and having a short report appear. Simple!

[ Move the nomadic Indians anyway. Or have them flee when there village is being attacked. ]

[Feb05] Negotiation with the Indians by Jorge Pérez

First I'd like to thank you for your effort making a modern colonization. There are some improvements I think that can result. One is that one should be able to negotiate with Indians a truce, and teach the Indians when they arrive to the colony, cause as they don't produce much they are disbanded as soon as they arrive.

[ You can calm Indians by sending in a missionary and trade goods and bribe them to attack other European powers.

Founding Father Bartolme de Las Casas causes all currently existing Indian converts to become Free Colonists. This is bad in a way as Indians work +1 outside from that of unskilled colonists so you can use them as planters, farmers and fishermen while you train up your own colonists. If the colony gets too full take a European colonist and found a new colony and stuff it full of Indians, call it 'Indian Village' or something. ]

Jorge replies: Now you say that of Bartolomé de las Casas, I think that once Bartolomé is added to the founding fathers all Indians to come to a colony should start not like Indians but like colonists, so Bartolomé should convert the existing ones and to be ones.

[ Perhaps the teacher could teach Indians to become Free Colonists. I still like a few Indians because you get +1 outdoor work. But it is a pain when you get too many. ]

[Feb05] Nomadic Indians, converting whole Villages and annual tribute by Jorge Pérez

Maybe it would be nice to be able to make the Indians move their camps (sometimes you build or conquer a colony that's adjacent to an Indian camp and you loose a square and have to destroy the camp or have a lot of Indian raids; another idea is the possibility of converting all of them and all their camps should become colonies; maybe it would be nice if you can make them pay tribute each year automatically, and not by a dragoon that's directed to a camp, then maybe if a European army attacks them you should defend them. All these are ideas i have, but i know that some of them are difficult to do.

[Feb05] Automatic Trade with Indians by Jorge Pérez

I can't put the destination of a Trade route in an Indian village, and that's a pity cause I can't make an "automatic trade". And the other is that Indians never want to trade if you don't go there with goods, I think they should go to a city to buy something and not only if they have no food.

[ As Indians don't like roads near their villages it is particularly important that they trade as wagon trains move very slowly. They could bring Furs to a Trading Post in exchange for the underused Trade Goods Commodity, Muskets or Cloth. ]

[Feb05] Why no Indian v. Indian wars? by Jorge Pérez

Why it isn't possible to join some Indians for attacking other ones?
In fact Hernán Cortés joined some Indians that were controlled by the Aztecs to fight them. I would like to make them fight other Indians (more powerful Indians, already at war,...).

[ I recommend Hasbro's Risk I for Indian v. Indian wars? There is an American scenario where you can play as the Spanish, British, Mexican Patriot Alliance, Columbian, French, Woodland Indians and Plains Indians. Plus smaller tribes at rebels with generals and forts. It's quite entertaining. The Indians should ally with a European power and fight other Indians allied with the powers enemies when at war. ]

[Dec99] Why no Indian v. Indian wars? George Carty

I think that Colonization would be improved if Indian v. Indian wars were possible, as this was important in the actual history. (I think the French were defeated because they originally allied with the Algonquins, meaning that the English were aided by the Iroquois).

[Also because England had a greater number of colonists, bigger fleet and colonies closer to the mother country.]

Of course, to do this you'd probably need more tribes (and possibly a bigger map)! It would be interesting if having friendly relations with one tribe risked starting a war with another.

[Feb05] Educate the Indians and Criollos by Jorge Pérez

I want to educate Indians, the Spanish colonies got their independence due to the power of the Criollos (born half Indians half Spanish), there were lots of them in the colonies and some of them had a lot of power (money and business) (in Spanish colonies the mixes between local, black and Spanish peoples were common, although I don't know when it started being so), anyway, I want to see more colours in the game.

[ As I said before Founding Father Bartolme de Las Casas causes all currently existing Indian converts to become Free Colonists. Thus they can then be educated and intermarry. One Indian tribe had their own schools. It would be difficult to program Criollos, I suppose you could get when the food bin hits 200 if there and Indians and Europeans in the Colony but then all the professions would have to 3 images: Criollos, Indians and Europeans not to mention Africans. Maybe they could have the special ability of boosting SOL production when in the town hall, like Elder Statesmen. Or only allow Criollos to be educated not Indians. ]

[Feb05] More Indian Tribes by Loaf Warden from the CivFanatics Colonization Forum

More Indian tribes. The Chinook, definitely. And the Inuit are a must, though of course then the pre-made America map would have to go farther north to include Alaska. But then, who wouldn't want that anyway?

[Feb05] Build Indian Villages

Once you start getting a lot of Indian converts plus some you may have captured from other Europeans (particularly the Spanish) you may not have enough jobs for them to do, as skilled labour can do it better than them. So why not allow Indians to build Villages, perhaps in areas depopulated by the Spanish or on your frontier. They can then be armed with Muskets and Horses and become your Allies.

[Feb05] Indian Dragoons

Spare Indians could be armed with Muskets and Horses and become Dragoons. They would not be able to attack Indian villages but would receive the Native ambush bonus. They might also be given to an Indian tribe at War with another European power. This would reflect the close military co-operation that occurred between Indian allies and European powers.

[May00] Capture Indian Cities

You should be able to capture Aztec and Inca Cities, and they should retain their City radius of 2 squares. This would make the game A LOT more interesting. After all the site Mexico City now occupies used to be Tenochitilan, the Capital of the Aztec Empire captured by the Spanish. Indians working inefficiently wouldn't be so important with more squares to work.

Jorge Pérez writes: I agree, in fact there are modern cities where there were pre Hispanic ones like Cuzco, and maybe Quito.

noyu@angelfire.com replies

  • I disagree with capturing Indian cities since they were DESTROYED! To be looted. None of them exists today.

    [ Many of the people of Mexico City are descended from the original inhabitants. I think in Colonization you should be able to capture big Indian cities. Look at a map of America. Many states, rivers and towns bear Indian names and quite a few Americans have some Indian blood. ]

    [May00] Regular mission intelligence by noyu@angelfire.com

    Regular intelligence about Indian villages must be received after a mission is established.

    [Aug99] Play as the Incas and Aztecs by Jeff Lindequist

    You should be able to play the Incas and Aztecs and when you conquer their cities treat them like Colonies not just destroy them, perhaps with an extended Civ type city radius applicable only to them and all initial colonists as native converts, also you should be forced to change the name like Tenochitilan to Mexico City.

    [ This would work better if you had a 'horses in the Americas' option, as horses originally evolved in America and crossed into Eurasia via the Icebound Bering Strait before dying out in the Americas. Then you could give them more powerful mounted brave units at the start. ]